You are a top achieving scholar. Tell us about your inclination towards academics and studies from an early age and your foray into the field of teaching. In my elementary and high school days, I was not among the brightest of the students. My elementary education was in a public sector school, which was closer to home; we sat on chatties (mats). I have fond memories of our head master, who was generally a polite but strict disciplinarian. On his weekly meetings, all students from grade one to five would line up including the teachers. We would start by singing the national anthem and “Lab pay ati hai dua nan ke tammana meri”— and the headmaster would lay emphasis on respecting our parents, elders, teachers, obeying traffic rules and maintaining civility and tolerance within the wider society. I grew up playing hockey and cricket, guli danda and Phitu. It was not until passing my Matriculation examination that my inclination towards reading developed. In retrospect, it seems that it happened due to two reasons; firstly, my mother was fond of reading Urdu novels and short stories and occasionally she would read to us. I developed the habit of listening to her, lying in bed, and as she read aloud, I followed the tale. Secondly, my summer holidays between 9th and 10th grade became the opportune moment to read jasoosi (mystery) novels—I recall particularly well Ibne-Safi’s series, which were great fun. Later on, Peter Cheyne, an American writer who published detective stories became one of my favourites. In later years, I got to read Dostovsky, Tolstoy, Pablo Neruda and Alberto Morvia—the last one remains my all time favourite. But it wasn’t until my Bachelors that I took serious interest in my studies at Gordon College, Rawalpindi. For a short while, we had a professor in Psychology, Dr Theodore Abdul Rahim Khan, and he was an inspirational teacher who aroused my interest in Psychology. I think he was the one who first sowed within me the dream to teach. In the mid 1960’s, Rawalpindi had a thriving library culture and I had access to three libraries; The first was the American Centre which was located in Saddar where the librarians were helpful and encouraging whilst talks/seminars were held regularly, then, there was the Pakistan National Centre which was an equally good library, and that is where I first met Dr KF Yusuf. She was giving a stimulating talk on the 1965 War at the time, and I could hardly have dreamed of being her student one day. It was only a year later, as I was pursuing my Masters in Geography, that I became her student. The last library that I had access to was the Army Central Library, a privilege that I enjoyed as a result of my father serving as a civilian officer in the GHQ. In my view, it was one of the best libraries in the city and this realisation was further re-enforced as I returned after doing my Masters in the US in 1976. I have valued its many resources. I became an scholar/ academic by accident. Following the Taskent Declaration in 1966, there were massive student protests across the country. Pakistan’s socio-political atmosphere was in ferment. I too was in a state of some agitation: I was awaiting my BA result. I vividly recall a few of my cricketing friends from the Government College Rawalpindi’s Cricket team at the time had approached me to join the college team. I was also informed that the college had started a Master’s in Geography. I was very tempted, at the thought of joining the cricket you see. The Master’s in Geography was a convenience – by being in the programme, I’d be able to take part in the cricketing team. The college cricketing team only egged on this idea, and I agreed. But that marked the beginning of a life-long interest in Geography. Dr KF Yusuf had created the Master’s Geography at the Government College, with a set of very competent and awesome teachers from all around the Rawalpindi colleges. During that year we became the runner up for University Cricket in the country – Being beaten in the end by GC Lahore. Looking back, however, I feel that during 1966-69, studies and the politics of student protests went hand in hand. There was an interest in reading, geo-political affairs, teaching and research in those years. I believe that you must have a passion for what you want to do and an opportune moment can do the magic, at least that is what happened with me. Your research articles on culture, politics, security, public policy, government and civil service have been published in international journals. Which has been your toughest project so far? Research requires dedication, commitment, passion and most importantly patience. It demands a societal culture that encourages critical thinking. Unfortunately, for the past four decades, the trend and dispensation in Pakistan is increasingly driven by belief and not reason and logic. As a researcher you are meant to start with scepticism and not with certitude. You want to explore and search; the assumption has to be ‘I don’t know’, while in our case ‘we believe we know it all’. In such an environment, knowledge, creation, critical assessment of values, beliefs, attitudes and knowledge sharing becomes a challenge. In my view research has three variations; academic, project based, and policy relevant. Academic research and project-based research are two different commodities and many times they overlap. Other times researchers try hard to separate the two and that becomes a challenge. Increasingly, research is becoming a project driven enterprise, which requires funding and that implies that the donor designs the terms of reference, therefore, you must oblige. The researcher is thus left at the mercy of his craft because he finds himself caught between fulfilling the donor requirements, but also ensuring that his/her own academic credibility, autonomy and objectivity is not compromised. This is the great hurdle that one needs to overcome. Academic writing entails theoretical assumptions, a literature review and in the case of policy, relevant researches some evaluation and possible recommendations. For me personally, I often find that before sending an article for publication, I have to re-write several times, share it with my colleagues for critical feedback. Quality academic journals lay out a framework for publication, in which a peer review is a pre-requisite for the acceptance and publication of an article. Writing is of course, no easy task and so each article I work on and supervise is a challenge – and it must be taken in that spirit. Setting a deadline to finish it becomes vital. Alas, even today, I have some unfinished research papers and there are some that I feel need more time to send for publication. All research projects are challenging, and patience, perseverance and persistent editing and reviewing make it even more so, but it is equally important to recognise that it is precisely this that makes the sense of accomplishment and reward all the sweeter. Unfortunately, in our case academia has been less vigorous and involved in policy analysis and that is why NGO’s, civil servants, and economists tend to dominate the policy arena. Though the number of think tanks is rising in the country but their impact and input in policymaking remains marginal. From being an academic, a teacher, a researcher, a writer and a reputed department manager as well as the curator of many projects, which role has been the most challenging? What motivates you to excel no matter what? For the past 45 years, I have been involved with teaching, training and research. In some ways, I have had an exceptional academic career, I have been teaching at Pakistani and American Universities— Quaid-i-Azam University (QAU), LUMS, Kinnaird College, Punjab University, University of Pennsylvania, Columbia University, and Wooster College but for me the game changer was my decision to join the Civil Services Academy (CSA), Walton, Lahore, as Chief Instructor. In my view CSA, was and remains the premier national training institute, where it is only those who compete and qualify the CSS are given training. And I being able to work there was like being given the opportunity to work with a mini-Pakistan! Sindhis, Balochis, Punjabis, Pashtuns, Kashmiris, Mohajirs, the people of Gilgit-Baltistan, and Saraikis – I hope I have not missed any ethnic groups! Besides, the national parliament, in my view CSA, embodies the federal spirit of Pakistan. It is a different matter that in the civil services, neither training is given the attention that it deserves nor does the CSA enjoy the prestige that it must have. This gave me an opportunity to converse, train and educate a bright, competitive and an exceptionally vocal Pakistanis. The CSA also provided me an opportunity to travel across Pakistan, and this has remained one of my most rewarding learning experiences. My time at the CSA allowed me to acquire an understanding of how the government works and consequently, how Pakistani institutions of governance operate. This also led me to research on bureaucracy and over the years my interest has expanded. Yet I am agitated on what happens to those young people who join service with a desire to do public service and are full of enthusiasm to promote public good but upon leaving the CSA, grow into monstrosities who prey upon the citizens. Sometimes, that is just how they perceived to be. They become blocks against the public service and citizen welfare. I often wonder – Is it our culture or inadequacies of training that makes them arrogant and anti-people? But there is no profession like teaching, particularly at the University level. It is animating, involving, innovative and refreshing but to have all these things you must have an aptitude, inclination and most of all a passion to learn from your students. An open mind and compassion are essential components for teaching and research. Your ability to play with new ideas, have trust in the wisdom of those who work with you, and ability to carry them along by encouraging debate and discussion becomes key to imparting your students with the confidence to make a critical assessment of what is said and written. The best part of teaching is the exuberance of youth, innocence and the boldness of imagination brought in by the students. I have been a professor in American universities but for me the most memorable experience has been being a teaching assistant to the undergraduate courses—engaging in class discussions was a thriller. I have some memory and personal recollection of five catastrophic events that many in my age group must have witnessed. These events have shaped my thinking, orientation and outlook in indescribable ways. I’ll list and briefly describe them out for you. 1) The humiliating surrender of Pakistan military on December 16, 1971 – It shattered completely the original idea and territory that was said to comprise of Pakistan. 2) The execution of prime minister Zulifikar Ali Bhutto on April 4, 1979. 3) The burning of the US embassy in Islamabad, on November 21, 1979. In the meanwhile, the president General Ziaul Haque was cycling around Rawalpindi city. I was the chairperson of the Pakistan Studies Department at the time, and I remember sitting with the then Vice-Chancellor of the QAU, desperately trying to reach the police officials. We were extremely concerned about the students of the university who were heading towards the Embassy but not even an SHO was available. 4) April 10, 1988, the Ojari Camp disaster. The stinger missiles and their shells played havoc with the city but it was neither ever fully investigated nor did it ever register on the conscience of Pakistanis. I was in Rawalpindi on that fatal day and took the evening rail car back to Lahore, as if nothing had happened. 5) 9/11, of course. When the Twin Towers were attacked, I was at Columbia University and two days later was to start teaching a course on Pakistan. It may interest the readers that at that time the chief of Pakistan’s reputable Inter-Services Intelligence was in Washington, DC on an official visit and that speaks volumes about the complex and painfully enduring nature of Pakistan-US relations. However, 9/11 not only changed America in an unprecedented way but also transformed the world. Since, I had lived in or visited America from 1975 to 2000 in different phases of education. It is hard to explain, what America was like prior to 9/11 and what it has become and how it has impacted the world. Who and how and what caused 9/11 despite commissions and insightful research remains a mystery. Today, intellectual and other freedoms in America may appear constricted but in the aftermath of 9/11 the resilience the American universities and academia showed and the way Columbia responded remains applaudable upholding academic freedom and intellectual vigour. ‘I believe that you must have a passion for what you want to do and an opportune moment can do the magic, at least that is what happened with me’ What do you do in your spare time? Spend sometime with family, my wife and three daughters are a source of inspiration and pride for me and that has helped me tremendously in focusing on my professional life. My 11-year-old daughter helps me gaze at future. I walk, read, exercise and watch tennis. Roger Federer is an inspiring player, so was Tiger Woods, until he messed up. What according to you has been your biggest achievement so far? None really but I think I can claim my time at the National Institute of Population Studies. I initiated and successfully completed the Pakistan Demographic Health Survey 2006-07, as chairperson Board of Governors of SDPI-2009-10, energising and reviving it and finally in all humility in contributing towards establishing the Centre for Public Policy & Governance, at the Forman Christian College in 2007. Institution building is a hard task. In the past 15 years, FCC has witnessed a revival and re-incarnation under two dynamic leaders, first, Dr Peter Armacost and then Dr James Tebbe, who has been our Rector since 2012. Visionary leadership has the ability to revive decadent and dormant institutions, and their sustenance demands team building. At FCC, the Centre for Public Policy & Governance has made a new beginning, but it has a promising future and with the current dispensation and rate of progress, it has the potential to become a centre of excellence and a leading think tank in Public Policy research, teaching, and training in the country. Having travelled far and wide and to have been honoured internationally on so many fronts, you could’ve easily settled abroad and lived comfortably. Why did you choose to live in Pakistan and work from here? I am indebted to Pakistan, with all that it has given me. Perhaps, I have been a little more fortunate as compared to many of my contemporaries. I went to US from Islamabad University in 1975 to the University of Pennsylvania on an exchange programme. I returned the year after, completing my Masters. It dawned upon me, quite suddenly, that if I wanted to stay in the business of teaching at a university, I must attain a PhD. During my Masters, I had learnt Tamil and written my thesis on Dravidian Politics. But upon my return, I realised that one couldn’t travel to India for research, and that too in South India! So, I applied to UPenn again, and was luckily admitted in the doctoral programme. Funding was an issue, so I raised money to pay for first term’s fees and landed there in Pennsylvania in1981 and completed my PhD. I returned back in late 1985. Many of my friends urged me to stay back, seek citizenship, and even some of my professor’s were enthusiastic about the idea. But though I felt return trips would be valuable – the university education is exceptional, the academic freedom was marvellous, I had no wish to settle. Over the years I have visited US several times and remain proud of the fact that though my doctoral and post doctoral degrees in the US eventually opened up enormous opportunities for me to travel abroad, present papers and publish them, I remain rooted in Pakistan. I am very happy with where I am in life and do hope, that I have contributed in my own little way to producing good citizens, and honourable human beings across the world and in Pakistan. In fact, I have no hesitation in stating that some of my students are reputable scholars, newscasters, public servants, successful businessmen, lawyers, judges and even politicians, so, I am also responsible for many things that are not good in our country! What is your vision for Pakistan and what does it mean to be Pakistani for you? We have competing visions about Pakistan and that implies there is no broad consensus on a particular vision. As academics, ulema, journalists, fiction writers, poets, social scientist—broad range of intellectuals our major shortcoming has been developing a minimum consensus on the broad goals of what kind of Pakistan, we want to build. Hence from identity to ideology, democracy to development, Islamicate to Modernist, everything is contested. Consequently, there is dismay, disillusionment, with the very idea and origins of Pakistan and it becomes challenging to be positive let alone constructive. This utter lack of consensus on even minute issues has become all the more aggravated as most Pakistanis struggle between catering for basic needs and trusting the rule of law. The increasing divergence between the demands of basic needs and rule of law produces notions of injustice, which consequently jeopardise the very idea and State of Pakistan. This demands that through deliberation, consultation, debate, tolerance and accommodation some minimal consensus be evolved on building national narrative on the very origins and future direction needs to be evolved. Even after 70 years, that means recogniSing the pluralist nature of Pakistani society, for it is in reality a multi-lingual, multicultural, multi-ethnic region; where every religion, belief and ethnicity must have a voice and legitimate representation, which absolutely needs to be respected and tolerated. This calls for celebration of diversity and that is federal spirit, which would ensure the sustainability of the Pakistani federation. Achievements AN OUTSTANDING SCHOLARThe legendary Saeed Shafqat is an eminent and internationally recognised social scientist; an academic, researcher and trainer. He obtained his Masters in Geography from the Punjab University. He has another Masters degree in South Asian Studies and a PhD in Political Science from the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia. He was a Fulbright Fellow for the year 1992-93. A DISTINGUISHED PROFESSORSaeed Shafqat is a founding member and former chairman of the Department of Pakistan Studies at the Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad. He has served as chief instructor and warden at the Pakistan Civil Services Academy, Lahore. Over this period, he imparted instruction and training to over 1,500 under training officers who are now serving in different branches of government all over Pakistan. He has been president of the Institute of Regional Studies, Islamabad. He has been chairman of the Board of Directors for Sustainable Development Institute, Islamabad. He is also member of the Board of Governors at the National Institute of Pakistan Studies, Quaid-e-Azam University, Islamabad. In 2007, he joined Forman Christian University, Lahore as professor and founding director of the Centre for Public Policy & governance. INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITIONSaeed has been director of Fulbright Seminar in Pakistan for the years 1991 and 1994. He was Visiting Professor at Maison Des Sciences Del’homme, Paris in 2000. He is on the editorial board of Pakistan Horizon & Strategic Studies & Peer Reviewer for several international academic journals. He was Quaid-i-Azam distinguished professor and chair at the Pakistan Centre at the School of International Affairs & Public Policy, Columbia University in New York, US. He has served as a regional member on the Board of Directors, Regional Centre for Strategic Studies, Colombo, Sri Lanka. He has been Adjunct Professor at SIPA, Columbia University, teaching two online courses. In 2012, he was visiting professor of South Asian Studies at the College of Wooster, Ohio, US. AN AVID WRITERSome of Saeed’s books are Political System of Pakistan & Public Policy and New Perspectives on Pakistan – Visions for the Future. Published in Daily Times, August 26th 2017.